Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/06/2000 03:15 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                     SB 267-MANAGEMENT OF GAME                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced SB 267 to be up for consideration.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY,  sponsor, moved to adopt the CS to  SB 267, version H                                                            
Utermole (1LS1430\H  3/6/00).  There  were no objections  and it was                                                            
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KELLY  explained  that  his intention  is  that,  in  areas                                                            
declared to be under intensive  management, "land and shoot" will be                                                            
considered  an acceptable method of  hunting.  Also, in the  statute                                                            
under the "land  and shoot" provision,  ADF&G cannot appoint  agents                                                            
for landing  and shooting  or to do aerial  shooting in areas  where                                                            
necessary.   This will allow them  to appoint agents for  that task.                                                            
Number 512                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KELLY  asked  Mr.  Wayne  Regelin,  Director,  Division  of                                                            
Wildlife Conservation,  ADF&G, if  he had reviewed the fiscal  note.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  REGELIN  replied that  he  had  briefly  reviewed it  since  he                                                            
arrived and thought that  it would probably be changed significantly                                                            
based upon the CS.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KELLY asked  if  the fiscal  note in  version  A came  from                                                            
section 3 which is now gone.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KELLY said  he thought  sections  2 and 3  didn't have  any                                                            
fiscal impact, but (c)(1) might and he asked him to comment.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN  replied that  he didn't think  there would be  a fiscal                                                            
impact on ADF&G, but there  would be a huge one on the Department of                                                            
Law as it fights  the separation of  powers between the legislative                                                             
and administrative branches of government.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE asked if he supports the bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN  said he hadn't a chance  to thoroughly read  the CS but                                                            
thought it  looked like a vast improvement  over the original  bill.                                                            
He explained  that it looks like they  are at an impasse  again over                                                            
wolf control.   It's not the first time and it is  hard to achieve a                                                            
long term solution.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  REGELIN  asked  to take  a  few  minutes  to  discuss  predator                                                            
management  in general and propose  a solution to the impasse.  Last                                                            
year  they heard  that  the Joint  Committee  in the  House  clearly                                                            
illustrated  the values  of the  many people  who  are dependent  on                                                            
wildlife  and many other  hunters who  want to  have more moose  and                                                            
caribou.  They firmly believe  wolf control is the answer and should                                                            
be started immediately in many areas.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He  assured the  committee  that many  people  in Alaska  have  very                                                            
different opinions.  They don't want  wolf control to occur  because                                                            
they  have different  values  about  wildlife.   They  feel just  as                                                            
passionately  about this subject  as the people  they heard  from in                                                            
the last joint  hearing.  He always tells people that  values aren't                                                            
right or wrong, but they  can be very different.  One thing they can                                                            
all agree on is that our  wildlife in Alaska belongs to all Alaskans                                                            
and  that we  should  consider  everyone's  values in  our  wildlife                                                            
programs.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Most sides have legitimate  concerns and legitimate uses. We have to                                                            
be careful  not to react on emotion  and to make reasoned  decisions                                                            
that can be sustained over time.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He  has to  smile when  people  tell him  that  wildlife  management                                                            
shouldn't  be  political  and  that all  decisions  should  be  made                                                            
strictly on biology.  Predator  management rivals how we spend money                                                            
in the Permanent Fund as  the one issue where Alaskans have a strong                                                            
opinion.   When  there is  this much  intense interest  in how  they                                                            
manage a  public resource,  politics are going  to be a big  part of                                                            
the picture.   If decisions were made  on biology only, we  wouldn't                                                            
need a  Board of  Game or  need to  spend hundreds  of thousands  of                                                            
dollars supporting advisory committees.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The legislature  realized at Statehood that biology  is only part of                                                            
the equation  and created the Boards  of Fisheries and Game  to meld                                                            
the biology with  human needs and desires into a management  system.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The Board of  Game has a very difficult  job, but overall  it does a                                                            
great job for  us.  In the past six  years, its job has been  made a                                                            
whole lot  harder because  three statutes  were passed that  mandate                                                            
decisions the  Board must make in certain instances.   The intensive                                                            
management  law is  very complex  to  administer  and causes  untold                                                            
problems for the  Board of Game.  He was glad to see  the CS doesn't                                                            
continue,  through the  statutes, to  tell the Board  how it  should                                                            
take action and he appreciated that.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Part  of the solution  is  that it's  time to  reexamine the  entire                                                            
intensive management  law and make  it more balanced and  easier for                                                            
the Board to use.   He has heard from many people  that the wildlife                                                            
management  system  lacks  balance.   They  feel  that  way  because                                                            
intensive management  laws mandate  that moose, caribou,  sheep, and                                                            
deer be managed intensively  for human consumption nearly everywhere                                                            
in Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Recent  changes in  statute mandate  that the  Board determine  that                                                            
consumptive  use is a preferred use  and it can't reduce  seasons or                                                            
bag limits  downward  without triggering  the  intensive  management                                                            
law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-09, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN  continued.   When you look at  the big picture,  people                                                            
who aren't  hunters believe  our system lacks  balance.  The  latest                                                            
thing he has heard  is that the system is broken.   These people are                                                            
Alaskans and we should listen to their concerns.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
We are fortunate  in that the size  of Alaska and the abundance  and                                                            
diversity  of wildlife  can  provide this  balance  in our  wildlife                                                            
management programs  so that all values can probably  be met in most                                                            
places in  Alaska.  Balance  means providing  areas in Alaska  where                                                            
intensive  management  for  human  consumption  is not  the  primary                                                            
management  goal; it also  means that wolf  control should  occur in                                                            
areas where the goal is  to keep predators at low or moderate levels                                                            
to enhance prey populations so people can use them for food.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He didn't think  the solution to the problem is additional  mandates                                                            
to the  Board or  to the  Commissioner.   These  measures have  been                                                            
tried several times and  haven't worked.  They don't do anything but                                                            
polarize the issue.  The  solution is to demonstrate to all Alaskans                                                            
that we have a  biologically based and balanced wildlife  management                                                            
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
If  we can  demonstrate  to  the public  that  our  goal  recognizes                                                            
diverse values and begin  to make changes to reach this goal, we can                                                            
begin to move  toward a solution.  We're not going  to get agreement                                                            
with the extremists  on either end  of the scale because  they don't                                                            
want to recognize  the values of anybody  else as being legitimate.                                                             
However, if  we go this way, we are  going to have the support  of a                                                            
vast  majority of  Alaskans.   He thought  we needed  to begin  this                                                            
process  by sitting  down  together  to consider  revisions  to  our                                                            
wildlife  management  statutes.   We  should  form small  groups  of                                                            
stakeholders  to discuss the biology  situation in McGrath  and work                                                            
with  them to  reach consensus  on a  management  direction in  this                                                            
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN  said they have had a  lot of success working  with this                                                            
group in  the past  and he thought  they could do  it again  so they                                                            
could move ahead  in the McGrath area.  To forge lasting  solutions,                                                            
they have to include  all the reasonable stakeholders  in the debate                                                            
and in the solution.   Inclusion of the extremists  won't be helpful                                                            
because  they  won't  compromise,  but  he is  convinced  that  most                                                            
Alaskans will.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY asked him  to comment on sections 2 and 3 and asked if                                                            
it was a better bill by removing section 1.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  REGELIN  responded  that  he  was  worried  section  1  creates                                                            
conflict  unnecessarily.   He thought  that aircraft  and use  of it                                                            
have to be part  of the solution in section 2.  The  way the bill is                                                            
structured  the practice of land and  shoot would be allowed  over a                                                            
broad area  of Alaska, because they  are talking about any  area the                                                            
Board of  Game has  identified for  intensive management.   He  said                                                            
they might want  to consider reducing that to areas  where the Board                                                            
of Game has authorized  a predator control implementation  plan.  It                                                            
might provide a lot less controversy for the bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD  asked what that meant.  He said  they authorized a                                                            
predator  program  in  McGrath  and  asked  if  they  authorized  it                                                            
anywhere else.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN  replied  that presently  it is  authorized in  McGrath,                                                            
unit 20D around  the Delta area, and  the Forty Mile 20E  area.  The                                                            
Board will  also consider  at its next meeting  whether to  add unit                                                            
13.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD  asked which additional areas are  being authorized                                                            
for intensive game management.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN  replied ADF&G  is going through  that process  now with                                                            
the  Board.   He didn't  have a  map, but  said it's  almost all  of                                                            
interior Alaska.  A few  areas have been left out because of the way                                                            
the statutes  are structured.   One village  on the North Slope  has                                                            
petitioned  to include  a couple of  areas on the  North Slope.   He                                                            
thought Kodiak Island was  listed to be managed intensively, but the                                                            
Board decided  it wasn't  practical to do.   In reality, there  have                                                            
been very few  areas identified in Alaska where human  harvest is an                                                            
important element  to the wildlife  management program.   He thought                                                            
that was appropriate.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY  asked if the predator  control program is  done under                                                            
emergency regulations and has a fairly short life span.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN answered  no, they are authorized for  five year periods                                                            
(with current  statutes) by  the Board of Game.   The only  time the                                                            
Board  used emergency  action  was at the  last  meeting in  McGrath                                                            
because it took it up out of cycle.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY asked if it was declared intensive management.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KELLY asked if  the problem  is that by  the time they  are                                                            
done with this process,  McGrath might find itself left out.  If the                                                            
Governor  can stack the Board  like he wants  to, they might  not be                                                            
able to  get the Board  to declare  McGrath to  be under a  predator                                                            
control  program.   If  they  change this  to  be under  a  predator                                                            
control program, they might  find that McGrath is sitting outside of                                                            
the bubble  and that's one  of the areas where  it simply has  to be                                                            
addressed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN informed them  when the Board took action in January, it                                                            
adopted  an emergency  regulation that  was converted  to a  regular                                                            
long-term regulation  that will take effect for five  years.  If the                                                            
Board rescinds  that action, it could create problems  in the timing                                                            
of the Board's cycle.   It requires a full Board meeting and the law                                                            
requires a public  meeting in the area, etc.  It could  delay it for                                                            
a year.  In most  places they know ahead of time what  is coming up.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what difference the bill makes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN explained  that the bill makes land and  shoot hunting a                                                            
normal method  of hunting in these  areas.  No permit would  have to                                                            
be issued.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  TAYLOR commented  that  the people  of Alaska  could do  it                                                            
themselves instead  of waiting around for them to  do something they                                                            
have been authorized to do for years but have refused to do.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 655                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  said she  would like a  side-by-side comparison  to                                                            
see  what   intensive  management   looked   like  versus   predator                                                            
management.  She  wants  legislation   so that  McGrath,   Alakaket,                                                            
Chuathluk, and  other areas that have already identified  a decrease                                                            
in the moose population  and an increase in the wolf population as a                                                            
serious  problem  to  have  a  program  that  would  be implemented                                                             
immediately.   She is concerned when the Governor  of her party says                                                            
wolf  control  will  be implemented   in the  McGrath  area  if  the                                                            
legislature  will take  up the Toklat  wolves and  one other  thing.                                                            
Someone referred to it  as a hostage situation.  She objects to that                                                            
type of management.  Either  we have a problem in these areas and we                                                            
address them or  we are held hostage.  She wants a  solution for the                                                            
people who  depend on that  moose and caribou  for food - and  not a                                                            
year down the line.  That's her bottom line.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. REGELIN responded  that the way the bill is drafted,  as soon as                                                            
it goes  into effect, land  and shoot hunting  would be a  permitted                                                            
activity as  a method of hunting or  trapping in the whole  area she                                                            
is  talking  about.    The  Board  has  completed   the  process  of                                                            
identifying populations  for intensive management.  This CS would do                                                            
that.  They have  to realize that in much of Alaska  around McGrath,                                                            
land and shoot  hunting is probably  not going to be that  effective                                                            
because of the topography.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  agreed with that  and added that they aren't  going                                                            
to see  a whole  slaughter of  wolves.   If this  bill does that  by                                                            
having the  word "intensive  management," she  would sign it.   They                                                            
have waited so  many years to have a solution and  there just hasn't                                                            
been one forthcoming from the Administration.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD  asked Mr. Dick Bishop, Alaska Outdoor  Council, if                                                            
he wanted to  testify or move the  bill.  He indicated he  wanted to                                                            
move the bill.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  TAYLOR moved  to  pass CSSB  267(RES) from  committee  with                                                            
individual recommendations.   There were no objections and it was so                                                            
ordered.                                                                                                                        

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