Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/06/2000 03:15 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 267-MANAGEMENT OF GAME CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced SB 267 to be up for consideration. SENATOR KELLY, sponsor, moved to adopt the CS to SB 267, version H Utermole (1LS1430\H 3/6/00). There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR KELLY explained that his intention is that, in areas declared to be under intensive management, "land and shoot" will be considered an acceptable method of hunting. Also, in the statute under the "land and shoot" provision, ADF&G cannot appoint agents for landing and shooting or to do aerial shooting in areas where necessary. This will allow them to appoint agents for that task. Number 512 SENATOR KELLY asked Mr. Wayne Regelin, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, ADF&G, if he had reviewed the fiscal note. MR. REGELIN replied that he had briefly reviewed it since he arrived and thought that it would probably be changed significantly based upon the CS. SENATOR KELLY asked if the fiscal note in version A came from section 3 which is now gone. MR. REGELIN replied yes. SENATOR KELLY said he thought sections 2 and 3 didn't have any fiscal impact, but (c)(1) might and he asked him to comment. MR. REGELIN replied that he didn't think there would be a fiscal impact on ADF&G, but there would be a huge one on the Department of Law as it fights the separation of powers between the legislative and administrative branches of government. SENATOR MACKIE asked if he supports the bill. MR. REGELIN said he hadn't a chance to thoroughly read the CS but thought it looked like a vast improvement over the original bill. He explained that it looks like they are at an impasse again over wolf control. It's not the first time and it is hard to achieve a long term solution. MR. REGELIN asked to take a few minutes to discuss predator management in general and propose a solution to the impasse. Last year they heard that the Joint Committee in the House clearly illustrated the values of the many people who are dependent on wildlife and many other hunters who want to have more moose and caribou. They firmly believe wolf control is the answer and should be started immediately in many areas. He assured the committee that many people in Alaska have very different opinions. They don't want wolf control to occur because they have different values about wildlife. They feel just as passionately about this subject as the people they heard from in the last joint hearing. He always tells people that values aren't right or wrong, but they can be very different. One thing they can all agree on is that our wildlife in Alaska belongs to all Alaskans and that we should consider everyone's values in our wildlife programs. Most sides have legitimate concerns and legitimate uses. We have to be careful not to react on emotion and to make reasoned decisions that can be sustained over time. He has to smile when people tell him that wildlife management shouldn't be political and that all decisions should be made strictly on biology. Predator management rivals how we spend money in the Permanent Fund as the one issue where Alaskans have a strong opinion. When there is this much intense interest in how they manage a public resource, politics are going to be a big part of the picture. If decisions were made on biology only, we wouldn't need a Board of Game or need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars supporting advisory committees. The legislature realized at Statehood that biology is only part of the equation and created the Boards of Fisheries and Game to meld the biology with human needs and desires into a management system. The Board of Game has a very difficult job, but overall it does a great job for us. In the past six years, its job has been made a whole lot harder because three statutes were passed that mandate decisions the Board must make in certain instances. The intensive management law is very complex to administer and causes untold problems for the Board of Game. He was glad to see the CS doesn't continue, through the statutes, to tell the Board how it should take action and he appreciated that. Part of the solution is that it's time to reexamine the entire intensive management law and make it more balanced and easier for the Board to use. He has heard from many people that the wildlife management system lacks balance. They feel that way because intensive management laws mandate that moose, caribou, sheep, and deer be managed intensively for human consumption nearly everywhere in Alaska. Recent changes in statute mandate that the Board determine that consumptive use is a preferred use and it can't reduce seasons or bag limits downward without triggering the intensive management law. TAPE 00-09, SIDE A Number 001 MR. REGELIN continued. When you look at the big picture, people who aren't hunters believe our system lacks balance. The latest thing he has heard is that the system is broken. These people are Alaskans and we should listen to their concerns. We are fortunate in that the size of Alaska and the abundance and diversity of wildlife can provide this balance in our wildlife management programs so that all values can probably be met in most places in Alaska. Balance means providing areas in Alaska where intensive management for human consumption is not the primary management goal; it also means that wolf control should occur in areas where the goal is to keep predators at low or moderate levels to enhance prey populations so people can use them for food. He didn't think the solution to the problem is additional mandates to the Board or to the Commissioner. These measures have been tried several times and haven't worked. They don't do anything but polarize the issue. The solution is to demonstrate to all Alaskans that we have a biologically based and balanced wildlife management system. If we can demonstrate to the public that our goal recognizes diverse values and begin to make changes to reach this goal, we can begin to move toward a solution. We're not going to get agreement with the extremists on either end of the scale because they don't want to recognize the values of anybody else as being legitimate. However, if we go this way, we are going to have the support of a vast majority of Alaskans. He thought we needed to begin this process by sitting down together to consider revisions to our wildlife management statutes. We should form small groups of stakeholders to discuss the biology situation in McGrath and work with them to reach consensus on a management direction in this area. MR. REGELIN said they have had a lot of success working with this group in the past and he thought they could do it again so they could move ahead in the McGrath area. To forge lasting solutions, they have to include all the reasonable stakeholders in the debate and in the solution. Inclusion of the extremists won't be helpful because they won't compromise, but he is convinced that most Alaskans will. SENATOR KELLY asked him to comment on sections 2 and 3 and asked if it was a better bill by removing section 1. MR. REGELIN responded that he was worried section 1 creates conflict unnecessarily. He thought that aircraft and use of it have to be part of the solution in section 2. The way the bill is structured the practice of land and shoot would be allowed over a broad area of Alaska, because they are talking about any area the Board of Game has identified for intensive management. He said they might want to consider reducing that to areas where the Board of Game has authorized a predator control implementation plan. It might provide a lot less controversy for the bill. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what that meant. He said they authorized a predator program in McGrath and asked if they authorized it anywhere else. MR. REGELIN replied that presently it is authorized in McGrath, unit 20D around the Delta area, and the Forty Mile 20E area. The Board will also consider at its next meeting whether to add unit 13. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked which additional areas are being authorized for intensive game management. MR. REGELIN replied ADF&G is going through that process now with the Board. He didn't have a map, but said it's almost all of interior Alaska. A few areas have been left out because of the way the statutes are structured. One village on the North Slope has petitioned to include a couple of areas on the North Slope. He thought Kodiak Island was listed to be managed intensively, but the Board decided it wasn't practical to do. In reality, there have been very few areas identified in Alaska where human harvest is an important element to the wildlife management program. He thought that was appropriate. SENATOR KELLY asked if the predator control program is done under emergency regulations and has a fairly short life span. MR. REGELIN answered no, they are authorized for five year periods (with current statutes) by the Board of Game. The only time the Board used emergency action was at the last meeting in McGrath because it took it up out of cycle. SENATOR KELLY asked if it was declared intensive management. MR. REGELIN replied yes. SENATOR KELLY asked if the problem is that by the time they are done with this process, McGrath might find itself left out. If the Governor can stack the Board like he wants to, they might not be able to get the Board to declare McGrath to be under a predator control program. If they change this to be under a predator control program, they might find that McGrath is sitting outside of the bubble and that's one of the areas where it simply has to be addressed. MR. REGELIN informed them when the Board took action in January, it adopted an emergency regulation that was converted to a regular long-term regulation that will take effect for five years. If the Board rescinds that action, it could create problems in the timing of the Board's cycle. It requires a full Board meeting and the law requires a public meeting in the area, etc. It could delay it for a year. In most places they know ahead of time what is coming up. SENATOR TAYLOR asked what difference the bill makes. MR. REGELIN explained that the bill makes land and shoot hunting a normal method of hunting in these areas. No permit would have to be issued. SENATOR TAYLOR commented that the people of Alaska could do it themselves instead of waiting around for them to do something they have been authorized to do for years but have refused to do. Number 655 SENATOR LINCOLN said she would like a side-by-side comparison to see what intensive management looked like versus predator management. She wants legislation so that McGrath, Alakaket, Chuathluk, and other areas that have already identified a decrease in the moose population and an increase in the wolf population as a serious problem to have a program that would be implemented immediately. She is concerned when the Governor of her party says wolf control will be implemented in the McGrath area if the legislature will take up the Toklat wolves and one other thing. Someone referred to it as a hostage situation. She objects to that type of management. Either we have a problem in these areas and we address them or we are held hostage. She wants a solution for the people who depend on that moose and caribou for food - and not a year down the line. That's her bottom line. MR. REGELIN responded that the way the bill is drafted, as soon as it goes into effect, land and shoot hunting would be a permitted activity as a method of hunting or trapping in the whole area she is talking about. The Board has completed the process of identifying populations for intensive management. This CS would do that. They have to realize that in much of Alaska around McGrath, land and shoot hunting is probably not going to be that effective because of the topography. SENATOR LINCOLN agreed with that and added that they aren't going to see a whole slaughter of wolves. If this bill does that by having the word "intensive management," she would sign it. They have waited so many years to have a solution and there just hasn't been one forthcoming from the Administration. CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Dick Bishop, Alaska Outdoor Council, if he wanted to testify or move the bill. He indicated he wanted to move the bill. SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSB 267(RES) from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
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